Thanks for the quotation that we had not seen before
I’m not sure should you have entry to Douglas Richardson’s Plantagnet Ancestry or not, whilst was written because the a resource to own People in the us having colonial forefathers off Plantagenet lineage. He offers as one of his proofs that Joanna is the new mother out of Gwladus Ddu the truth that Llewelyn provided the latest features out of Knighton and you will Norton castles when you look at the Shropshire in order to Ralph Mortimer whenever the guy and you will Gwladus was partnered. It could was basically unlawful getting Llewelyn giving Joanna’s assets so you’re able to a keen illegitimate child (or person who wasn’t an infant away from Joanna). This new attributes off Norton and you may Knighton stayed on Mortimer nearest and dearest afterwards. The new estimate is, “When the newest King render Home so you can a guy with an effective lady of their kindred when you look at the frank relationship, additionally the woman dyeth instead question, the person throughout the Leaders circumstances shall not hold it getting their lifestyle, just like the lady caused the the newest provide.” Put simply, brand new features will have reverted to the fresh new top ahead of they might have been provided to a child who was simply not Joanna’s.
Hey, Marilyn, I didn’t gain access to the newest Plantaganet Origins by the Doug Richardson, however, performed get access to the numerous discussions of him and you may their concepts together with other genealogists (certain having your, but many including against). I think, once i produced in my personal earlier papers, you to definitely what swings it in my situation(Joanna being the mommy out of Gwladus), is the transfer of your qualities you mention to help you Ralph de Mortimer up on his ed two of the youngsters ‘John’ and you may ‘Joan.’ I cannot suppose that if Gwladus was the brand new ded their particular children therefore. Inspite of the arguments between the eminent genealogists I talk about over, there was a standard consensus one Gwladus are russian women more attractive Ddu will be reasonably identified as the brand new child from Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth by the Joanna, daughter (subsequently legitimised) regarding John, King away from England. I’d like to need that it chance to trust Sharon (for the a contact if you ask me) you to definitely Llywelyn’s daughter Gwenllian is actually from the Tangwystyl and never Joanna, and therefore getting blood aunt so you can Gruffudd. We base which partially to your a contemporary list utilized in ‘Royal or other Historical characters Illustrative of the leadership from Henry 111,’ modified by the Rev. Walter W. Shirley, vol step 1. To your users 500-503 is the transcript out of a distinctive page dated Marshall, Earl regarding Pembroke, to King Henry 111. Within this letter, Marshall talks about his siege of your own castles out-of Crum, Kilmore and O’Realy. The guy lists the folks he found in the castle O’Realy when they surrendered, it integrated: “…uxor Wilelmi de Lascy, filia Leulini, soror Griffini de patre et matre, ainsi que uxor Thomae Blund fratis dicti Willelmi, et mater dictorum Willelmi et Thomae ….” I am informed this particular means i’ve here Gwenllian, child away from Prince llywelyn, whom is apparently named ‘aunt off Gruffudd.’ As we know Gruffudd to get new illegitimate child away from Llywelyn, it’s taken that ‘de- patre et matre’ means that Gwenllian and you may Gruffudd have been full bloodstream sister and you can sister. Got Gwenllian been Joanna’s daughter which King Henry’s relative, definitely Marshall could have said on that truth? This failure away from de- Lacy’s spouse since king’s niece, is removed as near particular research you to definitely Gwenllian was not the fresh new child of your king’s brother Joanna.
Such features were part of Joanna’s maritagium regarding their unique father Queen John
Ken: Many thanks for that mention of the Gwenllian. I am most certainly not a professional genealogist, however, I really do an abundance of research without any help outlines. I do believe some of the “pros” are incredibly jealous and you will furious of each other (at the very least evidently means in some of the things they post). There are points that our company is simply not attending understand with full confidence on members of the new MA as they didn’t continue public record information like i carry out today, very genealogists and you can historians need to use their utmost judgment from inside the sorting one thing out. Indeed, public record information was a fairly “new” build – of a lot claims in the us didn’t remain info of births and you can fatalities till the early 1900’s. We fall into multiple descent communities where I’ve had in order to establish eleven otherwise 12 years, and you may trust in me it is not easy. Thus i most see the trouble of evaluating MA ancestors. (And the sad topic is the fact that details that exist for the MA are of one’s royalty and nobility – nothing at all into common somebody).